Wednesday, July 25, 2012

Heritage, perhaps. Candidate Romney: Immigration Policy of Interest

Update Romney roots 2012.  Romney Anglo-Saxon?  A Rumney?
It is as likely as not that Mitt Romney's roots are Rumnichal, Romanichal.
Look at the history.  DNA?  Would that narrow the choices?
Small swab, please, Mitt. 

Then who pays for it?  The ones who did the DNA on the Obamas?
And who was that? But I digress....

Rumneys, Rumneys everywhere.  That appears to be the old spelling of the family Romney, as in Mitt. The Rumneys of Appleby.  Rumneys of Dalston.  Where else?  The more I look into the history of this family, the bits I have found, the more interested I get in the context of the time:  persecutions of Roma in England, and what might make a group that had to hide, blend, in order to survive, so open to preachers from America with a message of acceptance, a new religion, a new life, Mormonism.  See the chronology at a site with some similarities to this, but a timeline to make sense of it:  FodderSight, Romneys--Rumneys.  Records of St. Mary's, and references in a timeline to the annihilations and absolute rejection of Roma on the Continent, that followed Roma to the UK.

Early, early George Rumneys. Most everybody's geneology starts with Miles and calls him Romney, born 1806 in Dalton. See Go back further than that to find ethnicity. Do we trust the Miles Romney Family Organization? Is an alternate early spelling Rumley? see interchangeable Rumley Romney Rumney at

Even this site calls Miles "English" -- see  Not necessarily so.  Look at the St. Mary's records -- and the spelling Rumney, etc. etc.  The name of Mitt's ancestor George Rumley, who married Jane Burrow, given there as Rumley, should be George Rumney, ancestor to Mitt #256 ["George Rumley, b. Colby near Appleby, co. Westmorland, ... 1642, d. Dalton-in-Furness, co. Lancaster, 17 Jan. 1737/8
m. Dalton, co. Lancaster, 11 Oct. 1702"].  Is that so? 

1.  George Rumney, b.1547 Dalston. Wife Ella. Parents of Thomas Rumney born1572, Cumberland, who married Margaret Harrinson 1598. Was he baptized? children:  Mitt Romney's ancestors -- all Rumneys, no Romneys, Dalton-in-Furness.

The first believed forbear, a George Rumney (name recurs), the one who moved to Dalton, was from Appleby, Westmorland, England.

2.   George Rumney, born 1642, died 1738,  Two early Georges and a William are listed at but there the links break.  Can't access the information. This looks Australian?

Rumney, Rumnichal, Rumneys as a common name for an ethnic group, large population in Appleby then and now .  It is also used in place names:  Rumney Marsh, Romney Marsh; Rumney, Wales. FN 1

Roots of American candidates.  Does it affect policy, should it, how to tell.  Or is it just the olde curiosity shoppe.  It is easy to see if emigrant-immigrant roots are "landed" people.  They own land, there are deeds, and they were probably enrolled at a parish for birth and death records.  Anyone who claims landed lineage, not just the working poor, would be able to show that.  Roma were not landowners traditionally, and would not be on such rolls. On the other hand, Rumneys in Appleby were described (or is that a later revision, now?) as yeomen, farmers. See family members researched at

Then, in addition to whether forbears are landed, is ethnicity.  Romneys raise both questions. Were they landed, with the first recorded person in 1750, that should show in land records.

Are Mitt Romney's roots Anglo-Saxon, as touted by an aide (does Romney state that himself?); or are the roots elsewhere in England, with stems from other places Roma Romany.

It should be easy to find out -- birth and death records pre-1850 or the date of the Romney immigration to America, perhaps 1848?  That would work, unless the family were, as true of so many, the industrial fungible worker-poverty class, no records.  Just clear the air, someone, and find out.

We have found, we think, Romney ancestors in Cumbria, England, Dalton and surrounds, and place of the Appleby Horse Fair and many Travelers for centuries. See!/2011/12/candidates-and-their-own-minority-roots.html.  The Horse Fair is a large gathering of people stemming from or who are Roma.

Are or were any of those forebears of Mitt Romney: Roma, Romani. Gypy.  Travelers.  Roma did serve the Mormon cause in America, with the Perpetual Emigrating Fund using farms to raise funds to bring more people here, and one is shown at Gypsy Sky in Utah, see "Gretchen" who wrote a small blog with photos about such a farm, at this URL:

  • This is a matter of curiosity about anyone's lineage (ours is fully contorted) as well as seeking to find why he has such bias toward favoring Anglo-Saxon heritage.  Is it his own, or his adopted heritage?  Anglo-Saxon or Norman or Other? Somebody can easily find out by going there.  Land records. If none, then itinerant or worker or what, like the rest of us.  The issue of Anglo-Saxon -- Mitt Romney and the microphone -- See
We learn that Roma indeed converted to Christianity along the way, some, among other religions adopted or into which some assimilated, see

History of Mormonism.  Mormon missionaries to England apparently were the triggers for the Romney ancestor conversion, but cannot verify the nature of the background of any of the claimed ancestors.

A name alone does not prove or even suggest ethnicity without more. Would someone over there look up and document the birth registers, where the graves are, and report if there is an early Romany root? early Romneys, back to (is this so?) 1700's. 

Does connection, even a remote one, with a beleaguered immigrant group, lead to increased sensitivity to their issues.
Ask Mitt Romney
A.  Mitt Romney.  Roma roots suggested by surname
1. Mitt Romney has a surname, "Romney," with traceable Gypsy-Roma-Romani roots for many families (someone could research his).  See idea threads at Roots of Romney.  See the look into connections between Roma and Mormonism, ongoing, at!/.  If you have information, or relatives that converted and you can document that, let us know.  It is a fascinating web.
This presents a recurrent issue in American politics.
 If someone has ancestral ties to a group of immigrants, or non-immigrants, in disfavor here by prejudice based on history, color or ethnicity, what does that person do to get elected. If desires to help are transparent, is that a problem.  If background is denied, is that a problem.  Mr. Romney, former governor of Massachusetts and a man of vision who enacted universal-type health care insurance coverage there, is a Mormon (always?) and the Mormons are known for their geneological research.  Enter the Mitt Romney dates at Mormon Genealogy Dot Com  and see where it leads.  Will the Mormons include Roma Romani Gypsy roots for one of their shining lights, or is there no Roma connection to this Rom'ne at all. Go vet.

If there is Gypsy-Roma heritage involved, it would make a great PBS documentary of the variety and brilliance in every ethnic group, if access to a ladder with rungs is within reach.  The choices for individuals seeking public office, however, are not so clear where racism and anti-immigration is involved.

We presuppose for our purposes here that there is a Roots of Romney.  Roma connection to Romney. Implications for immigration attitudes.  Do people change religion to avoid stigma? 

B.  Choices for Mr. Romney and any immigrant-descendant:  If he has no Romnie roots, apply anyway as a politician representing government of all the people, by all the people for all the people.

1.  Deny thine ancestors and refuse thy name's roots. Please the angry ones. Live a lie.

2.  Embrace thine ancestors, and see the unique opportunity that thee has to foster good will and understanding about them.  Look how far you, as an individual, came. If you are not a threat because of your origins, need others be.

3.  Duck and hope the issue goes away.  Count on the hidden spinners to spin castigations to silence those who speak in ways that foster rights of all people.

4.  Pretend that the immigration position is solely related to whether the person entered this country legally (that does not mean by invitation implicit in open borders and free employment practices until recently)

Romney and the broad reach of Roma roots becomes more complex in current global and local power struggles, seen in one of America's groups, the Melungeons. away from them in order to be more pleasing to the angry ones.

Does Mitt Romney have the courage and intelligence to Cross the Tea's? Go ahead. Cross the Teas. Cross the T's.

While he is at it, will be dot the i's -  in Immigration, that means applying equity to the legalisms, see below.

For an idea of the complexity of our immigrant background, here is an Islamic site tracing the Islamic origins of a particular group we addressed earlier in the context of a mix of darker skinned settlers in the south:  the Melungeons.   See Islamic origins of "Melungeon" - possibly.

C.  And Mitt Romney CHOSE...

(drum roll, for the big reveal)

1. In 2007, the legality route, exclude the equity balancers to legalism, that make our legal system great, or used to.

  Hard on the undocumented ones. Mitt Romney on immigration in 2007   Let's hear it for national ID cards (and how would that foster participation by Roma, even though legally here);  and no amnesty as the code for ignoring the responsibility for leaving the doors wide open, an open invitation implicit, for entry by anyone, and employers hiring and rentings and licenses granted without a lot of scrutiny regardless, and all the other equities involved)

2.  In 2008, again the legality route sans equity. Pedigree of Mitt Romney, and Legalism Without Equity on Immigration

He specifically fears jihadists (but [pick the terms] Christian evangelical ethnic cleansing militia doctor-killing groups or however those who fear others' ideas, are excluded). Here we particularly welcome research into the Moorish roots of some Melungeons, see again the Islamic site, re Moorish roots of American Melungeons

3.  In 2010 -- where is the equity side, Mr. Romney?  Mitt Romney in Immigration. Legalism without Equity Balance.  Legality without equity balance distorts our legal framework.  Law and equity were blended here, one court able to hear both:  but that is under attack, as equity itself is under attack.

Is Mr. Romney toadying right along with the bury-equity movement? See it at ://  No equity in this system, folks, see? No equity!  Mr. Romney at least should know better. Law and equity each have valid remedies, despite efforts of some to ignore the equitable and hope it will go away, or the efforts to use it are underfunded, see Law and Equity: Both Remain  



FN 1

Everyman's starting point for issues is an encyclopedia: and, if the source is a Wiki, vet carefully. Content can be changed by persons with agendas other than objectivity.  That said, start on the United Kingdom and its ethnic groups, here, Travelers, or Gypsies, at  Romanichal, Romnichal, Rumneys, Rumanichal, spellings differ.  But surnames can derive from ethnic designations, so the exploration begins as to Rumney-Romnney.  It is common lore that one Miles Romney converted to Mormonism, and emigrated to America in the mid-19th Century.  But who was he?  His forbears?  When did his family arrive in a traditional English church.  We know of St. Mary's in Dalton;  George Romney the 19th Century painter's wife lived, after his travels, George joined her in Kendal, archives at

Rumney.  Romney Marsh. Rumney Marsh.  A locale in England, at Kent. A place of many Travelers,  but not exclusively, of course. Find one George Rumney Marsh who married a Native American here in the 17th Century, a/k/a Sagamore George or Wenepoykin, who died in 1684, see  Winchester MA info at

 Rumney is also a place in Cardiff, Wales. See

4.  In 2011. I searched and got a virus warning, so am signing off to fix it. 

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