Black Madonnas. Possible Roma Origin for Some? Or Sara la Kali

Saint Sarah, Saint Sara, Sara-la-Kali. Or a Black Madonna.

See an overview of the stories of the Black Madonna at ://www.bookrags.com/wiki/Saint_Sarah/ There, find that there is a servant to the three Mary's, Mary Magdelene, Mary Salome, and Mary "Jacobe". The servant, perhaps, is Sara la Kali, Sara the Black, in some traditions.

Gdansk, Poland. Sara la Kali, patron saint of Roma; or a Black Madonna?

At first thought, this painting was, to us, a "Black Madonna," at the Cathedral in Gdansk, Poland. See Europe Road Ways Black Madonnas.

As a madonna, however, this one has no child; has the sunburst symbolism usually seen for saints, and then there is a crescent shape beneath, and other signs surrounding. If you see no picture, click on the box and it should load for you.



Rather than being a Black Madonna, is this Sara the Black, Sara-la-Kali, patron of the Gypsies, the same as Saint Sara, or different. Get an overview at Bogomilia, A Site for the Unsung, Sara the Black. This does appear to be Sara the Black, so far.



Needed: a translation for the symbols surrounding the painting.



Sara the Black, Sara-la-Kali, is at the heart of Gypsy pilgrimages in France, at several places. See //www.geocities.com/~Patrin/stsm01.htm, and post at Europe Road Ways Themes - Roma, Black Madonna. The stories suggest she was with the Maries finding the empty tomb. Perhaps an Egyptian servant to Mary Mother. Someone who saved other saints in France. Who was she. See a good summary of ideas at NationMaster, ://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Saint-Sarah#Tradition/ There the name of Mary Salome appears, as one of the three Marys at the crucifixion, and later ending up on France with Joseph of Arimathea. The site notes at ://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Salome-%28disciple%29 that Mary Salome was considered a "disciple" (how is this different from the "apostle" idea?). And in the now lost Gospel of the Egyptians, she is also a "disciple." See Nationmaster.



Wikipedia //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Saw_Three_Ships.has a variation of a Romany carol, from a Roma family in Brazil, for "I Saw Three Ships," with only Joseph and Mary on board; but other legends have Sara accompanying Mary.



See //en. There is an old version with those on board being 'Our Saviour Christ and His Ladye.' Do a search for I Saw Three Ships verses, and there is a Google book at //books.google.com/books?id=yWEDAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA124&lpg=PA124&dq=%22i+saw+three+ships%22+verses&source=web&ots=QJ7dMkJLtq&sig=D9J6esbp9il5ARtTVfKrfOvH1OA#PPA125,M1.



That "ladye" must mean Mary Magdalene, and that would upset some. That version is also at //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Saw_Three_Ships.



And, as a further update to the Salome common name, is this figure of Sara la Kali a a derivation from the Salome story, the woman healer from the hills in the apocryphal Infancy Gospel of James, see Martin Luther's Stove, James' Christmas Prequel, Infancy Gospel of James. Salome: airbrushed out of theology and history. Appears as a name in Mark, at the Crucifixion and witnessing the empty tomb. And in the banned Gospel of James the Just, the Infancy Gospel of Jesus. There, at our presentation of the gospel as a pageant with dialogue, see Salome as the first to be healed by the infant, the first to recognize him, the first to worship. No wonder Rome rejected it, even though it was buttressed to meet dogma requirements in all the virginity ways. With her fiery hand healed by the infant, the Salome of James' attributed account would be highly motivated to stay close and follow. Did she?

Romani law and culture; religion; Sites, sources

How to begin to understand a different culture, one heavily laden with negative stereotypes from those with an economic or status interest in keeping the different group down.  See the Gypsy Lore Society at http://www.gypsyloresociety.org/. Click on "information on Gypsy and Traveler Cultures, then start on your own.

1.  Theft-type events.  Is it?

a.  The reputation for theft, taking advantage, is often attributed to Roma, Romani. Is that a cultural backlash from those who indeed experienced those matters, and who then focus only on the behavior and not the context (exclusion, prejudice, deprivation) from which they stem.  Are those behaviors a defensive survival accommodation, or malice.

b. Linguistic clues to viewing behavior.  A possible connection, may be in the language of one group, the Sea Gypsies of Sri Lanka, and the others that migrated north and west out of India, see Andaman Sea Gypsies at Gypsies, Roma, Andaman Sea Gypsies.

 The language of the Andamans apparrently (experts, please check) includes only the joint concept of give and take; and not "take" as an isolated act, in the sense of "steal."  The idea seems to be in that culture: If you need it, you can have it. Period. For those not obsessed with accumulation, that works.

b. Another source refers to the myth that Gypsies are allowed to steal because it was a Gypsy woman who hid the Baby Jesus from Herod - see (here is a long URL - do the best you can) http://books.google.com/books?id=CByPU90k6rMC&pg=PA362&lpg=PA362&dq=steal+gypsy+babies&source=web&ots=1XdpU1wIoY&sig=lZmvic0XnnQXla9jBPTccWTSg_k.

c.  Common sense suggests that taking what you need, or want, is a way of leveling the playing field agaist the majority culture who persecute, or something more. See this fair use quote from http://www///romani.uni-graz.at/rombase/cgi-bin/art.cgi?src=data/ethn/groupscz/cz-vlax.en.xml:

"The relationship between Vlachi and the gadže is rather antagonistic. According to a general law 'to do harm to an enemy is rather heroism than a sin', a theft commited against a gadžo is praised and has become a traditional subsidiary way of providing livelihood. To steal from a is of course considered a violation of Romromano sokáši, (Rom habit, norm, law), and is punishable by the internal court (trial) kris."

d. For us at this site, having enjoyed our improvised road trips including in Roma areas, we mind ourselves, and retain admiration at techniques that allow surviva.  Manye internal laws and cultural practices have kept gypsies intact and unassimilated overall, with all their variations in individual groups.

 They seek to remain that way, and do not approve public displays of their essential business. So, do a search for gypsies roma, just that way, and many fine sites come up. Right now, with no expertise in the area at all, we are uncomfortable summarizing. Take the sites we find and read all about it there.

2. Fortune-telling.   This is common sense:  if offering a service results in cash to the provider of the service, why not engage in it.

Among the Roma, this is not an admired route, however.  Fortune-telling is low status, compared to other ways of making ends meet.

See the novel,  Zoli,  at 244. At another place, make them answer four times, all of them wrong.

3. Religion:

This site notes that the Roma often adopted the religion of the countries where they were, see http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/cultural/oldworld/europe/gypsy.html.

But was that voluntary, or forced -- and acceptance was seen as the way best to survive. In the contemporary Czech Republic, the Roma are said to be largely Roman Catholic now - see //romove.radio.cz/en/clanek/18906, with beliefs in souls that survive death, read that site carefully because there is so much there. Their only saint appears to be Sara-la-Kali, or Sara the Black, see Gypsies, Roma, Sara the Black.

Other sites:

1. See http://www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/cultural/oldworld/europe/gypsy.html.

2. Book - not read yet - "Gypsy Law: Romani Legal Traditions and Culture" - in paperback, Walter O. Weyrauc. Look it up on Amazon and see many other related books.

3. This site is excellent for how the Roma govern themselves within their communities - customs, rules, taboos. http://www3.baylor.edu/~Charles_Kemp/gypsy_health.htm