Provided: cross-index of topics relevant to Roma, particularly in Britain.
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This focus on Britain stems from an interest in the immigrant roots of our American politicians, and noting the similarity of Mitt Romney the Candidate and England Road Ways Romneys in Cumbria, were they also from the town in Kent, and Romany Roma Romanichal, etc. If there is a connection, how might knowledge of those backgrounds aid the originating groups, in a transparent, common-good way. See also England Road Ways' Roma in Leeds, England.
For modern Romneys, the name "Rumney" is consistently used in earlier days, part of the Rumnichal heritage. For a start, see Wiki and then vet sources, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanichal . Wiki as a start is fine, not for conclusions without vetting.
.
Tracking the Romney name, was it Romany at one time (surnames were often adopted in the locality for protection), or will anyone ever know as to this family. Our conclusion so far is that no clear connection has shown yet; but the search for surname roots opened other historical, ethnic interests that have overflowed from this site, Gypsies Roma, to others.
.
With an election season in the United States, and a Romney, who is also a Mormon, we looked at who converted to Mormonism from England -- its most fruitful source. And explored possible roots of Romney to Romany, nothing conclusive from what we have seen.
.
Timeline for the name Romney so far, Rumenea, Rominel: sites listed below; and for other concepts relevant to the Roma experience:
.
Celts, others in Britain, 600 BC- 50AD http://www.britainexpress.com/History/Celtic_Britain.htm; re Britons, see http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/british_prehistory/peoples_01.shtml
Romans invade Britain 43AD, including at Kent, http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/1000piece-puzzle-may-unlock-secrets-to-the-roman-conquest-of-britain-6287730.html. Thereafter, Angles and Saxons and Jutes also move over the channel to Britain, during Roman times http://www.btinternet.com/~timeref/saxons1.htm
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Romans leave Britain 410 AD http://www.historyonthenet.com/Chronology/timelineroman.htm
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1. 600's -- Romney, town and Marsh, Kent, southern England, tip toward France. This area was called Rumenea, Saxon fold. See http://www.uk-genealogy.org.uk/england/Kent/towns/Romney.html
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2. 1000-1100 -- Area became known as Romanel, after the Norman conquest, from France into England 1066 (William the Conqueror; Romanel from the name of one such invader). Or is it earlier, before the Saxons even, derived from the Romans at Romanel Marsh, all preceding by centuries and millennia the arrival of gypsy Romanichal, Romany.
.
3. 1500's -- first Roma arrive in Britain, Gypsies from mistaken understanding that they were from Egypt. Origin? perhaps Spain, Ireland where they had entered earlier? There were already nomadic groups in Kent, see http://www.kent.gov.uk/community_and_living/gypsies_and_travellers/history_of_gypsies.aspx. Thereafter, influx and events, http://www.grthm.co.uk/timeline.php
.
4. 1530 -- Act of Parliament requiring all gypsies to leave -- immediately. Many went into the New Forest, Hampshire, http://www.newforestromanygypsytraveller.co.uk/history1.html
.
5. Policies of policing, how the mindset spreads, see concept at http://www.sassafrastree.blogspot.com/#!http://sassafrastree.blogspot.com/2011/03/domestic-gendarmism-gendarmes-over.html
.
6. Role of perpetuating dependency, particularly where a people value their autonomy so highly, http://www.plainmeaning.blogspot.com/#!http://plainmeaning.blogspot.com/2012/01/dependency-is-humiliating.html
.
7. Assuming local names, other secrecy steps needed for survival, identity; this site re Scotland examples, http://gypsyjib.wetpaint.com/page/Scottish+Gypsies. English Romanies also traveled to Scotland. See photos and surnames at that site. Names remaining Gypsy (not names of those originally Gypsy who adopted local names instead), see Romany Routes, Journal of the Romany and Traveller Family History Society, http://website.lineone.net/~rtfhs/journal.html
.
8. 1840's -- Mormon missionaries arrive in Britain, the new religion having been founded in 1830 and met with persecution in America, see business model for processing converts, http://martinlutherstove.blogspot.com/#!/2012/01/mormon-converts-19th-c-owned-by-company.html
1850's -- Romanichals, English gypsies, start coming to America, see http://gypsyjib.wetpaint.com/page/Arrival+of+Gypsies+in+America.
Assimilate or stay distinct?
.
9. Candidates and minority roots: an exploration (we find no clear Romney-Romany connection from sites or records), http://hellofodderhellobuyer.blogspot.com/2011/12/candidates-and-their-own-minority-roots.html#!/2011/12/candidates-and-their-own-minority-roots.html
As with any ancestor-activity, much occurred outside the record books. But as a surname, Romney itself is not seen as a "gypsy" surname but instead references the locale. No way to track who assumed the locale name, as the poll-tax of Henry II in 1377 (predating arrival of Roma) required a surname and many simply took the locale.
.
10. Continuing hold of origins, lessons learned perpetuate, http://sassafrasthicket.blogspot.com/2012/01/steered-by-navels-and-surnames-what-if.html#!/2012/01/steered-by-navels-and-surnames-what-if.html
.
11. Ethnic origins and politics. Romney-Roma-Romany will remain elusive, and there are roots to Saxons and Normans in similar sounding names. Romney as town, Romney as whatever. Was there the survival blending of surnames? No way to know. Still, topic is of interest, see http://www.joyofequivocating.blogspot.com/#!http://joyofequivocating.blogspot.com/2011/10/deny-thy-father-romney-as-roma-other.html
.
This focus on Britain stems from an interest in the immigrant roots of our American politicians, and noting the similarity of Mitt Romney the Candidate and England Road Ways Romneys in Cumbria, were they also from the town in Kent, and Romany Roma Romanichal, etc. If there is a connection, how might knowledge of those backgrounds aid the originating groups, in a transparent, common-good way. See also England Road Ways' Roma in Leeds, England.
For modern Romneys, the name "Rumney" is consistently used in earlier days, part of the Rumnichal heritage. For a start, see Wiki and then vet sources, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanichal . Wiki as a start is fine, not for conclusions without vetting.
.
Tracking the Romney name, was it Romany at one time (surnames were often adopted in the locality for protection), or will anyone ever know as to this family. Our conclusion so far is that no clear connection has shown yet; but the search for surname roots opened other historical, ethnic interests that have overflowed from this site, Gypsies Roma, to others.
.
With an election season in the United States, and a Romney, who is also a Mormon, we looked at who converted to Mormonism from England -- its most fruitful source. And explored possible roots of Romney to Romany, nothing conclusive from what we have seen.
.
Timeline for the name Romney so far, Rumenea, Rominel: sites listed below; and for other concepts relevant to the Roma experience:
.
Celts, others in Britain, 600 BC- 50AD http://www.britainexpress.com/History/Celtic_Britain.htm; re Britons, see http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/british_prehistory/peoples_01.shtml
Romans invade Britain 43AD, including at Kent, http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/1000piece-puzzle-may-unlock-secrets-to-the-roman-conquest-of-britain-6287730.html. Thereafter, Angles and Saxons and Jutes also move over the channel to Britain, during Roman times http://www.btinternet.com/~timeref/saxons1.htm
.
Romans leave Britain 410 AD http://www.historyonthenet.com/Chronology/timelineroman.htm
.
1. 600's -- Romney, town and Marsh, Kent, southern England, tip toward France. This area was called Rumenea, Saxon fold. See http://www.uk-genealogy.org.uk/england/Kent/towns/Romney.html
.
2. 1000-1100 -- Area became known as Romanel, after the Norman conquest, from France into England 1066 (William the Conqueror; Romanel from the name of one such invader). Or is it earlier, before the Saxons even, derived from the Romans at Romanel Marsh, all preceding by centuries and millennia the arrival of gypsy Romanichal, Romany.
.
3. 1500's -- first Roma arrive in Britain, Gypsies from mistaken understanding that they were from Egypt. Origin? perhaps Spain, Ireland where they had entered earlier? There were already nomadic groups in Kent, see http://www.kent.gov.uk/community_and_living/gypsies_and_travellers/history_of_gypsies.aspx. Thereafter, influx and events, http://www.grthm.co.uk/timeline.php
.
4. 1530 -- Act of Parliament requiring all gypsies to leave -- immediately. Many went into the New Forest, Hampshire, http://www.newforestromanygypsytraveller.co.uk/history1.html
.
5. Policies of policing, how the mindset spreads, see concept at http://www.sassafrastree.blogspot.com/#!http://sassafrastree.blogspot.com/2011/03/domestic-gendarmism-gendarmes-over.html
.
6. Role of perpetuating dependency, particularly where a people value their autonomy so highly, http://www.plainmeaning.blogspot.com/#!http://plainmeaning.blogspot.com/2012/01/dependency-is-humiliating.html
.
7. Assuming local names, other secrecy steps needed for survival, identity; this site re Scotland examples, http://gypsyjib.wetpaint.com/page/Scottish+Gypsies. English Romanies also traveled to Scotland. See photos and surnames at that site. Names remaining Gypsy (not names of those originally Gypsy who adopted local names instead), see Romany Routes, Journal of the Romany and Traveller Family History Society, http://website.lineone.net/~rtfhs/journal.html
.
8. 1840's -- Mormon missionaries arrive in Britain, the new religion having been founded in 1830 and met with persecution in America, see business model for processing converts, http://martinlutherstove.blogspot.com/#!/2012/01/mormon-converts-19th-c-owned-by-company.html
1850's -- Romanichals, English gypsies, start coming to America, see http://gypsyjib.wetpaint.com/page/Arrival+of+Gypsies+in+America.
Assimilate or stay distinct?
.
9. Candidates and minority roots: an exploration (we find no clear Romney-Romany connection from sites or records), http://hellofodderhellobuyer.blogspot.com/2011/12/candidates-and-their-own-minority-roots.html#!/2011/12/candidates-and-their-own-minority-roots.html
As with any ancestor-activity, much occurred outside the record books. But as a surname, Romney itself is not seen as a "gypsy" surname but instead references the locale. No way to track who assumed the locale name, as the poll-tax of Henry II in 1377 (predating arrival of Roma) required a surname and many simply took the locale.
.
10. Continuing hold of origins, lessons learned perpetuate, http://sassafrasthicket.blogspot.com/2012/01/steered-by-navels-and-surnames-what-if.html#!/2012/01/steered-by-navels-and-surnames-what-if.html
.
11. Ethnic origins and politics. Romney-Roma-Romany will remain elusive, and there are roots to Saxons and Normans in similar sounding names. Romney as town, Romney as whatever. Was there the survival blending of surnames? No way to know. Still, topic is of interest, see http://www.joyofequivocating.blogspot.com/#!http://joyofequivocating.blogspot.com/2011/10/deny-thy-father-romney-as-roma-other.html
